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Post by Rick Barbee on Dec 12, 2021 15:23:35 GMT -6
Why are so many of the bow manufacturers (especially ILF, but not exclusive to) going to only building bows/limbs, that are sub 60#, and some even sub 55#?
It makes no sense to me, and really shaves off a lot of the market for them.
Super hook limbs, that are in the higher draw weights are only built by Border as far as I know.
Does anyone know of a super hook manufacturer (preferably US, but not stuck on it), that builds ILF limbs in the 65# (or up) range?
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Post by Draven on Dec 12, 2021 15:32:35 GMT -6
Most of the market is target oriented. One single Olympic Archer is shooting #65 OTF, the italian who won the bronze at Olympics. I think he is hooting Fivics if I am remembering right. Uukha is target oriented and I doubt that "just carbon" will be enough to get them there. Contact Morrison but as much as they are the hype, I don't like the "broken in" for a limb aka to lose some poundage in first 200 arrows before the limb settles. Sounds iffy to me.
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Post by Rick Barbee on Dec 12, 2021 17:05:30 GMT -6
Most of the market is target oriented. One single Olympic Archer is shooting #65 OTF, the italian who won the bronze at Olympics. I think he is hooting Fivics if I am remembering right. Uukha is target oriented and I doubt that "just carbon" will be enough to get them there. Contact Morrison but as much as they are the hype, I don't like the "broken in" for a limb aka to lose some poundage in first 200 arrows before the limb settles. Sounds iffy to me. I've talked to Brandon (new owner) at Morrison. He don't/won't build anything over 55#. I have however heard very good things from guys who use his limbs. John Mosier at John's Custom archery uses a set of 55#ers on his Optimus riser. He swears by the Morrison limbs, and has recommended them me on several occasions. I use one of Johns Optimus risers, and I love it. I may call Brandon, and talk to him some more about it. Maybe if I plead with him enough he will build me what I want.  |
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Post by Draven on Dec 12, 2021 18:46:48 GMT -6
I don’t doubt that Rick, it’s just my “issue” with the construction process. I know after that they are great.
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Post by Rick Barbee on Dec 12, 2021 20:58:03 GMT -6
I just heard back from Backwoods Composites.
They build the super hook limbs from 30 - 70 lbs.
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Post by Rick Barbee on Dec 13, 2021 18:02:14 GMT -6
Just ordered a set of MOAC 1.0 (Super Hook) - 65# @ my 29.5" draw - ILF Limbs in the Medium M2 length from Backwoods Composites Here's the link straight to their Super Hook ILF page: www.backwoodscomposites.com/product-page/MOAC-ILFThere's a 6 month wait time, but I can live with it. I've suffered worse. LOL |
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Post by Draven on Dec 13, 2021 21:26:43 GMT -6
Grats! I have 3months wait for a Border wood riser.
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Post by Rick Barbee on Dec 13, 2021 22:01:36 GMT -6
Those limbs are gonna look real good with a set of either one of these on them. I haven't decided yet, but I'm partial to the timbers.  |
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Post by Rick Barbee on Dec 14, 2021 17:27:20 GMT -6
The Backwoods Composites bowyer called me earlier.
The limbs I will be getting are his new 2.0 limbs, instead of the old 1.0's.
He told me there was only a slight increase in performance, but a real nice increase in lateral stability.
He's been so busy, that he hasn't had time to update his website to reflect the new product.
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Post by reelfisherman13 on Jan 7, 2022 11:34:07 GMT -6
Because most animals will die just as dead with 45 or 50lbs.
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Post by Rick Barbee on Jan 7, 2022 12:07:25 GMT -6
Because most animals will die just as dead with 45 or 50lbs. Of course, but, that wasn't my question. My question was, and still is - (reworded a bit) Why are bow manufacturers trending more & more toward only offering bows in the sub 60# range? Especially, why are custom bowyers trending that way? That trend for mass production I can understand to a point, but custom makes zero sense to me. |
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Post by reelfisherman13 on Jan 7, 2022 14:00:31 GMT -6
Go shop for used bows and you'll see. People aren't buying higher poundage. People can shoot more consistently with less ftaw weight and that is the trend. Two bows of rhe same make a d model, one 45 at 28 the other 60 at 28. Listed the same day. Chances are the 60 will sit there a while. All else being equal lower poundage bows are in demand.
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Post by Rick Barbee on Jan 7, 2022 14:17:22 GMT -6
Go shop for used bows and you'll see. People aren't buying higher poundage. People can shoot more consistently with less ftaw weight and that is the trend. Two bows of rhe same make a d model, one 45 at 28 the other 60 at 28. Listed the same day. Chances are the 60 will sit there a while. All else being equal lower poundage bows are in demand. Exactly why I said, that I can understand it to a point with mass produced bows. But, for a custom bow it makes zero sense. A custom bow is built to order. Why not build it to the draw weight the customer desires? Don't build the 60+ bows, until they are ordered. Problem solved. Forcing them to accept something they don't want kind of defeats the purpose of custom. Does it not? As far as "People can shoot more consistently with less ftaw weight and that is the trend." is concerned: Change that to "Some People", and you have an accurate statement. |
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Post by reelfisherman13 on Jan 7, 2022 17:36:26 GMT -6
Maybe it would cause them to have to do something different in riser to strengthen it. Dunno.
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Post by Rick Barbee on Jan 7, 2022 20:28:16 GMT -6
Maybe it would cause them to have to do something different in riser to strengthen it. Dunno. That is certainly a possibility, but there never seemed to be a problem with that prior to the trend. I also know of several custom bowers who still offer 60+ draw weights, and much more. Riser reinforcement isn't a problem either. Might take some different material, but a custom bowyer can just charge more for those risers, if his expense deems it necessary. I don't know. It sure is a puzzle to me. |
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Post by reelfisherman13 on Jan 8, 2022 7:06:39 GMT -6
Yeah I didn't catch that part in your post about the custom bowyers. I know that the G10 in my riser is there for strength and I'm sure Randy goes up to 70lbs but I don't know if heavy limbs require a different form or different fiberglass thickness but either way you'd think an experienced person could.
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Hutch
New Member
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Post by Hutch on Jan 8, 2022 7:07:27 GMT -6
Completely agree Rick. Custom should be made to order...Period. Riser strength was mentioned, look at shrew. They have what I would consider a petite riser. They list 80# as their top weight you can order. Maybe the newer bowyers are a little scared of the liability. Dunno. Anyhow, I'm sure you'll love those moac limbs Rick.
And ad far as max 6 limbs losing weight. First of that sounds ridiculous. Second, my limbs still pull the exact same weight from day one.
Hutch
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eddiec
Junior Member
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Post by eddiec on Jan 8, 2022 8:45:11 GMT -6
After reading through the posts, my question is this.
Do higher poundage limbs have a higher failure rate and the bowyers are trying to avoid this?
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Post by Draven on Jan 8, 2022 12:00:12 GMT -6
I doubt this eddiec. Damon Howatt made bows up to #65 - I have a #70 that was a custom made. If they did it in 80s, I see no reason with today's technology and materials a bowyer having an issue breakage related.
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Post by Draven on Jan 8, 2022 12:06:38 GMT -6
And ad far as max 6 limbs losing weight. First of that sounds ridiculous. Second, my limbs still pull the exact same weight from day one. Hutch That's what was said at one point by the bowyer himself - maybe the 5th gen? |
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Post by Rick Barbee on Jan 8, 2022 15:36:18 GMT -6
After reading through the posts, my question is this. Do higher poundage limbs have a higher failure rate and the bowyers are trying to avoid this? On conventional limbs, I'm going to say no. If anything, they are stronger by a lot. I always joke around, and say I could pry a tractor out of the mud with my heavy weights, without any damage to the bows, but the tractor might suffer some dents. The super hook limbs may be a whole different story though, but I kinda doubt it. |
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Hutch
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Post by Hutch on Jan 8, 2022 17:55:38 GMT -6
And ad far as max 6 limbs losing weight. First of that sounds ridiculous. Second, my limbs still pull the exact same weight from day one. Hutch That's what was said at one point by the bowyer himself - maybe the 5th gen? Ya 10-4!! Alota things over my pay grade. Does make me wonder why though.... Hutch |
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Post by Draven on Apr 15, 2022 13:53:20 GMT -6
Hey Rick, how is going with the waiting? Soon you will have your limbs
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Post by Rick Barbee on Apr 15, 2022 14:27:02 GMT -6
Hey Rick, how is going with the waiting? Soon you will have your limbs My order was placed on 12/13/2021. They said 6 months when I placed it, so technically it will be 6/13/2022, but I've had no correspondence from them, so kind of in the dark as of now.
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Post by Draven on Apr 16, 2022 6:28:45 GMT -6
Hmm, not fun.
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Post by Bowmania on Apr 22, 2022 14:40:33 GMT -6
May have something to do with durability? Lot less stress on a 35 pound ILF connection than a 60 pound connection. I seem to remember that when I first started hearing about ILF that 60 was the max. That was when I could shoot 60 and I thought well I'll never be shooting ILF. Now, that's all I shoot.
If that has any truth to it? Think of the extra stress with a 60 pound SR.
Bowmania
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Post by Rick Barbee on Apr 22, 2022 17:04:58 GMT -6
May have something to do with durability? Lot less stress on a 35 pound ILF connection than a 60 pound connection. I seem to remember that when I first started hearing about ILF that 60 was the max. That was when I could shoot 60 and I thought well I'll never be shooting ILF. Now, that's all I shoot. If that has any truth to it? Think of the extra stress with a 60 pound SR. Bowmania All of my ILF limbs are 65# plus at my draw, and I have shot them A LOT with zero issues. Personally, I think the lack of heavier limbs, and the reluctance to build them by most bowyers is because they are harder to build. |
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